Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders and New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez brought their Fighting Oligarchy Tour to Tempe last week. It was part of a regional swing, which also included stops in North Las Vegas and Denver.

During the events, Sanders and Ocasio-Cortes generally focus on economic inequality and criticize Republican policies. But, Phil Boas, an editorial columnist for The Arizona Republic, argues if the pair wants to fight the oligarchy, they should start closer to home.

Boas argued in a recent piece that it’s the Democrats who are the party of the oligarchy. Boas joined The Show to talk about that along with editorial page editor Elvia Díaz.

Full conversation

PHIL BOAS: Oh, not a little bit of hypocrisy, a lot of hypocrisy. For the Democrats to be coming into town like this and to be decrying oligarchy, let’s just say it’s a little bit like, Bernie Madoff calling the Kardashians greedy. I mean, it’s just a joke.

The Democrats have been living off the largesse of rich and powerful people in this country. They enjoyed billions and billions of dollars of support in the last presidential election, outspending the Republicans by 2 to 1. They burned through $1.5 billion in 15 weeks, this is the Kamala Harris campaign.

I mean, this is a party that is hobnobbing with the rich and famous all the time. And it is at their beckoning call all the time. And so for them to come into town and then to decry the Republicans like this is just laughable.

BRODIE: Phil, I wonder if you draw a distinction between Democrats as a whole and maybe these two particular messengers: Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Because I think you could probably make an argument that, yes, while the Democratic Party was having a lot of success with very wealthy donors, these two in particular have maybe been a little bit on this message for a while now.

BOAS: Well, they’ve been on this message while they’ve lived large for the Democratic Party, and they have represented the party. Bernie Sanders has run twice now, trying to be the head of the ticket for the Democratic Party. It’s a little bit like Claude Rains, the French police captain in “Casablanca” saying he’s “shocked, shocked to find out that gambling is going on” in this establishment.

You know, it’s just, it’s a joke. And begin with your own party. If you’re going to decry oligarchy, let’s start with the Democrats and really go after them.

BRODIE: Elvia, I want to get your take on this. Do you see hypocrisy in a pair of members of the Democratic Party — or at least who caucus with the Democrats — calling out oligarchy on the part of Republicans?

ELVIA DÍAZ: Well, you know, both parties do it, and they have done it. I think there’s a huge difference between the donors. It is impossible to argue against it. It is true that the Democrats are relying on big donors just as much as the Republican have. So of course they rely on that.

But there is a huge difference between the donors that contributed to the parties and individual campaigns and those of the people running the government. I think oligarchy, in this case what they are, what they’re saying is that the Trump administration, it is composed of billionaires: the people in the cabinet, cabinet members, those running the government.

You have Elon Musk, who is the wealthiest person on earth right now. He’s the one in charge — unelected, by the way — he’s the one in charge of dismantling the federal bureaucracy. So I think that’s what they mean with “Fighting Oligarchy,” the actual administration.

And they are — both of them, Bernie Sanders and Rep. Ocasio-Cortez — what they’re doing is trying to fill a leadership vacuum from the Democrats. People are angry, people are afraid and no one is fighting back. And they want someone or a group of people or the Democrats to fight back Donald Trump. So that’s what they’re trying to do.

If this slogan is not perfect, OK. I give you that. Slogans are slogans. But, it wasn’t just Tempe. Thousands of people are showing up to these rallies, and to me, it shows that people are hungry for leadership.

BRODIE: Elvia, I want to ask you about that point you’re making, the difference that you’re making between the donors and people running the government. I wonder if in some ways, in the current era, that might be somewhat of a distinction without a difference, because even if it’s sort of a wink and nod kind of acknowledgment that, hey, if I give you candidate a lot of money, you’re going to do what I want you to do. Like, you kind of owe me something.

DÍAZ: That’s a huge problem in politics and has been for a long time. And that’s why there has been a lot of fights and a lot of discussion about taking money out of politics. But because that is impossible to do, at least, at least right now. And Bernie Sanders himself, you know, he has a few million dollars, but nothing like a billionaire.

And again, I think people are just hungry to connect with someone, and they are connecting. And I think Phil would agree that they are connecting with at least a segment of the population.

And tell me, where are the other Democrats? We don’t like the word “Fighting Oligarchy,” which I may not like it as well. Where are the other Democrats connecting with the American people?

The Democrats in Congress have no power right now. That’s understandable. They can’t do anything to stop Donald Trump. And therefore, speaking out, going out, listening to people, talking to people is what they can do. And that’s what Bernie Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are doing.

So I will say they’re doing a lot more than what others are.

BRODIE: So I wonder if all of this talk about oligarchy and the bank accounts of people donating to campaigns and running the government now, does all this in your mind point to maybe the influence of money in politics, maybe the fact that there’s too much money in politics generally?

BOAS: Well, I think no doubt. I think the critique is legitimate, that there’s too many wealthy donors who have influence over the government in this country. But it’s very hard to rein in, as John McCain learned, when he was a U.S. senator. It’s very hard to limit speech in that way. And the Supreme Court views that spending as speech.

And so until you get that change or you find a way to regulate it, we’re going to have it in our politics. The problem the Democrats have is that all those billionaires they have lined up on their side who contribute their millions to the Democratic Party, they’re not altruists. They expect something for their spending, and they get it.

And I also would remind the Democrats that Elon Musk used to be their oligarch, and they were happy as could be with him when he was theirs. Now that he’s on the Republican side, you know, they’re lighting their hair on fire.

So this is a problem of both parties. And if you’re going to critique it, you have to come on like hellfire to both parties for doing it. And especially the Democrats, because the Democrats right now are the champs of oligarchy.